(Tridentine South Africa)
Article by Marc Aupiais
As I was unable to attend the Latin Mass meeting, all the way in Pretoria yesterday, I sent someone who was attending my proxy and that of a fellow of mine.
The monsigneur- who had informed us he would only do the mass if at least 30 people were in attendance- something that seemed reasonable- but which does seem against the wishes of the Vatican- informed all who had travelled so far that he had had a sudden change of heart- he would no longer do the Latin Mass with them- this at the third meeting simply to finalize the location.
He said they could find out in October about another priest he might ask about it. Pretoria is over an hour's drive from Johannesburg, and many people put off important things to comply with this meeting- we share our empathy with them for their disappointment, especially as I personally have not until recently had any interest in the Traditional mass- except in a feeling that God desired it.
Sadly- in a country where holding hands during the Our Father- seems the norm, despite this not being a Catholic symbol, and not something with a biblical source- something utterly foreign to the rubrics of the mass, nor permitted without Vatican Approval that I have ever seen- which no document I have seen gives, and where communion is taught to be received on the hand- against the norms in the rubrics I have seen, and against what Vatican II said.
It is no secret that the South African Church has a crisis- with so many not understanding basic doctrines- or else not attending mass at all.
So, in truth- I had hoped the Latin- not only would achieve what Pope Benedict had intended, but also reunite SSPX members with the church, as well as increase Orthodoxy in general as it has in other nations.
Unfortunately- we once again must wait on another hope- I do know of Parishes in South Africa who adhere to the desires of the papacy to permit the Latin form of mass, and I do know of some developments, but for now we need to wait and hope- and obey God as best we are able.
Sad defeat often turns into great victory- I only wish I knew why there is such a negative attitude about this Valid form of mass among many priests- to the extent that many Catholics are in open Schism with Mother Church- simply because they desire to worship as they used to- in what Vatican II had set forth as the Ordinary form- Latin!
Please continue to pray for the Advancement of the right we used to follow for over a millennium- the one which was called the ordinary form- and has the imprimatur of Trent- of God's most famous council upon it.
This said- the colloquial is valid- and we do not disobey by following it- just the opposite!
Sunday, September 28, 2008
Friday, September 26, 2008
Latin mass meeting tomorrow in Pretoria
Article by Marc Aupiais
This is a reminder of the meeting at St.John Fisher's Parish, Lynnwood, Pretoria at 09:00AM this Saturday- to discuss the possibility of a Latin mass in the Archdiocese-
c.f.
http://tridentinesa.blogspot.com/2008/09/tridentine-mass-in-archdiocese-of.html
This is a reminder of the meeting at St.John Fisher's Parish, Lynnwood, Pretoria at 09:00AM this Saturday- to discuss the possibility of a Latin mass in the Archdiocese-
c.f.
http://tridentinesa.blogspot.com/2008/09/tridentine-mass-in-archdiocese-of.html
Wednesday, September 24, 2008
Why many Protestant and Other congregations die- and the link to strict rules
(c.f. Catholic Culture)
Article by Marc Aupiais
Protestant Christianity in its old form is declining- much of modern Protestant thought- often more mimics the beliefs of a political party or country, or movement than its roots in the 16th century- according to Catholic Culture. This is clear in the recent controversy of the Anglican synod- and the generally acceptance of contraceptive- homosexuality- and female priests among many protestants- things the reformers did not approve of.
The worlds biggest religions- Islam and Catholicism- are the most rule bound and the ones most strict in these.
The countries where Catholicism is strictest- it is largest- where self mortification is most practised, it grows the most.
The reason to watch this trend within the congregations of protestantism- is because it does not come from its roots- none of these people can claim the follow what they "originally heard" from their organizations' founders- as the bible commands of us to do with the words of Christ- but only that they are for progress- something borrowed from secular society.
Catholicism has its own additions from this- from the liberal movement who are not judging the world as "the spiritual man judges all things", but from its perspective- judging the spiritual- and the "carnal is death" (if our religion is to be believed), while the bible (Saint Paul)adds "the spirit is life", and so we have our own carnal additions- holding hands during the Our Father- from Alcoholics Anonymous (Karl Keating- Catholic Answers Apolostate), and communion on the hand, reintroduced by protestants- who desired to show that as the bread they took together was nothing but bread- that therefore any could handle it. Granted- in the early church- communion was often taken on the hand- but the church itself changed this practise- further- in areas where this was active prior Vatican II- it was not an abuse to allow it, yet we are still asked to do otherwise in the official norms.
Another addition- this one perhaps more serious is
- holding hands during the our Father- which is lambasted from EWTN, to Catholic Answers- to Zenit News, to important bishops- as something not in the rubrics- the script by which we hold mass.
According to an authoritative book of the church's on the mass- the holding hands created the wrong atmosphere- the mass is a worship ceremony- it is prayer, and the witnessing of a sacrifice- of the Eucharist- God's living flesh through time-
therefore- while the sign of peace is permitted and correct- it must not be an afterthought- rather- we at Tridentine South and Southern Africa- believe both the Our Father- and the Sign of peace should be distinctive and each have their own powerful impact, through the contrast- by inciting firstly the first command- worship of God- and then the second- love of neighbour- and the singleness of the church.
And so- the Latin mass fits our needs for growth and Orthodoxy- in the phenomenal growth of the churches which have instituted this- and in the growth of irregular organizations such as SSPX, whose bishops are excommunicated.
We must not water down religion to gain following- rather- we must increase its hardness- so that the seed does not fall on shallow ground- but on deep ground.
Further- we should not take practises from Alcoholics Anonymous- we do not gain our power from our peers alone- but from God and the sacraments- and our beloved Popes.
Holding hands- is a sign of needing support- a hand shake is a sign of support- the second is loving our neighbor- the first is something that has perhaps helped alcoholics- but which is introduced from the bottom up- in contrast with the method by which truth is clarified in the church.
Article by Marc Aupiais
Protestant Christianity in its old form is declining- much of modern Protestant thought- often more mimics the beliefs of a political party or country, or movement than its roots in the 16th century- according to Catholic Culture. This is clear in the recent controversy of the Anglican synod- and the generally acceptance of contraceptive- homosexuality- and female priests among many protestants- things the reformers did not approve of.
The worlds biggest religions- Islam and Catholicism- are the most rule bound and the ones most strict in these.
The countries where Catholicism is strictest- it is largest- where self mortification is most practised, it grows the most.
The reason to watch this trend within the congregations of protestantism- is because it does not come from its roots- none of these people can claim the follow what they "originally heard" from their organizations' founders- as the bible commands of us to do with the words of Christ- but only that they are for progress- something borrowed from secular society.
Catholicism has its own additions from this- from the liberal movement who are not judging the world as "the spiritual man judges all things", but from its perspective- judging the spiritual- and the "carnal is death" (if our religion is to be believed), while the bible (Saint Paul)adds "the spirit is life", and so we have our own carnal additions- holding hands during the Our Father- from Alcoholics Anonymous (Karl Keating- Catholic Answers Apolostate), and communion on the hand, reintroduced by protestants- who desired to show that as the bread they took together was nothing but bread- that therefore any could handle it. Granted- in the early church- communion was often taken on the hand- but the church itself changed this practise- further- in areas where this was active prior Vatican II- it was not an abuse to allow it, yet we are still asked to do otherwise in the official norms.
Another addition- this one perhaps more serious is
- holding hands during the our Father- which is lambasted from EWTN, to Catholic Answers- to Zenit News, to important bishops- as something not in the rubrics- the script by which we hold mass.
According to an authoritative book of the church's on the mass- the holding hands created the wrong atmosphere- the mass is a worship ceremony- it is prayer, and the witnessing of a sacrifice- of the Eucharist- God's living flesh through time-
therefore- while the sign of peace is permitted and correct- it must not be an afterthought- rather- we at Tridentine South and Southern Africa- believe both the Our Father- and the Sign of peace should be distinctive and each have their own powerful impact, through the contrast- by inciting firstly the first command- worship of God- and then the second- love of neighbour- and the singleness of the church.
And so- the Latin mass fits our needs for growth and Orthodoxy- in the phenomenal growth of the churches which have instituted this- and in the growth of irregular organizations such as SSPX, whose bishops are excommunicated.
We must not water down religion to gain following- rather- we must increase its hardness- so that the seed does not fall on shallow ground- but on deep ground.
Further- we should not take practises from Alcoholics Anonymous- we do not gain our power from our peers alone- but from God and the sacraments- and our beloved Popes.
Holding hands- is a sign of needing support- a hand shake is a sign of support- the second is loving our neighbor- the first is something that has perhaps helped alcoholics- but which is introduced from the bottom up- in contrast with the method by which truth is clarified in the church.
Tuesday, September 23, 2008
Why Catholics are meant to take communion on the tongue
(c.f. EWTN- case for communion on the tongue) While the church permitted bishops in areas where it already occurred- to allow communion on the hand- the mass use of this practice in the modern era is an abuse- and endanger the loss of respect for the sacrament-
The church itself sets forth as the norm- the way people should take communion- as communion on the tongue.
When we go to church- often we are unaware of so many doctrinal points- such as the necessity of this doctrine- or the fact we are not permitted by the official doctrines or works of Mother church to hold hands during the our father- or many of these other things-
The Latin mass truly is our heritage- not so much as in that it preserves these images that give us respect for God- but in as much as Vatican II actually desired the beloved Novus Order- to be said in Latin in most cases.
A good site on what should happen in mass- recommended by Catholic culture is-
http://www.massabuses.com/
The strict rubrics and procedures of the Tridentine mass- often ensure obedient following- even so- we truly wish more people would practice the NO mass more in line with the desires of the church- remember- you are there to pray- to worship- not to hear a man speak!
The spirit of the Lord- is in the utmost details of our obedience- and cannot be the being behind any disobedience- truly- what does not gather scatters- and what is not from God- does not gather- for evil does not result in good-
Fidelity to our wondrous desert dry public worship- to the very detail of every word of truth- is our way in salvation- whether Novus Order, or Tridentine- we must most perfectly perform every action- and with our entire being worship and manifest the Truth- our God- always demonstrating in body language and respect exactly whom we worship!
In fact- communion on the hand- emerged again with the protestants who rejected the real presence- and took it on the hand to symbolically show this:
http://ihmhermitage.stblogs.com/2008/06/08/holy-communion/
The church itself sets forth as the norm- the way people should take communion- as communion on the tongue.
When we go to church- often we are unaware of so many doctrinal points- such as the necessity of this doctrine- or the fact we are not permitted by the official doctrines or works of Mother church to hold hands during the our father- or many of these other things-
The Latin mass truly is our heritage- not so much as in that it preserves these images that give us respect for God- but in as much as Vatican II actually desired the beloved Novus Order- to be said in Latin in most cases.
A good site on what should happen in mass- recommended by Catholic culture is-
http://www.massabuses.com/
The strict rubrics and procedures of the Tridentine mass- often ensure obedient following- even so- we truly wish more people would practice the NO mass more in line with the desires of the church- remember- you are there to pray- to worship- not to hear a man speak!
The spirit of the Lord- is in the utmost details of our obedience- and cannot be the being behind any disobedience- truly- what does not gather scatters- and what is not from God- does not gather- for evil does not result in good-
Fidelity to our wondrous desert dry public worship- to the very detail of every word of truth- is our way in salvation- whether Novus Order, or Tridentine- we must most perfectly perform every action- and with our entire being worship and manifest the Truth- our God- always demonstrating in body language and respect exactly whom we worship!
In fact- communion on the hand- emerged again with the protestants who rejected the real presence- and took it on the hand to symbolically show this:
http://ihmhermitage.stblogs.com/2008/06/08/holy-communion/
Thursday, September 11, 2008
Tridentine Mass In Archdiocese of Johannessburg- meeting on place
The contact information of the parish where the meeting at 09:00Am on the 27th of September, will be carried out at is
http://nunescr.jimdo.com/contact_us.php
a justification of the mass is given here
Removed on temporary status for investigation for Orthodoxy issues
Email we sent out:
Dear {Friends and fellows},
I would firstly like to thank your admins for allowing us to send this message, which will be of interest to either many members or people they know of.
The Archdiocese of Johannesburg plans to redintroduce the Latin mass to those desiring it, with a specific mass, but need to know they will succeed if they do this, as it is requires at least 30 monthy attenders to be worthwhile.
There will be a meeting on the 27th of September, at 09:00am at the parish of St. John Fisher, which is in Lynwood, Pretoria.
If there are enough people willing to commit to this, the applicable persons, would be willing to allow the Latin Mass, in a single parish at first in the diocese- if we had a minimum of 30 people attending it a month.
Please inform your parishes about this, perhaps to be announced at the announcements in mass.
We have set up a facebook group, which will keep you in the loop, which we would appreciate our fellows joining:
listed here
http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=27321623434
God bless,Pax Christi et Catholici,
Marc Aupiais
To start, we have a meeting on the 27th September at 09:00 at St.John Fisher's church Lynwood, Pretoria, where the viablity of this will be judged, if we have 30 once a month attenders- it is viable-
The location will also be discussed i.e. JHB or Pretoria.
here is our facebook group
Tridentine South Africa
It, like this will have details!
here is an intorduction
"The ancient rite of the mass, the Tridentine mass, may be reintroduced to the Archdiocese of Johannesburg, if the diocese can get enough people in the Johannesburg/Pretoria area to want to attend it.The Archdiocese is trying to start up a Latin mass in Johannesburg or Pretoria, but we desperately are trying to get at least 30 people to go once a month, or ris no mass at all.Join this group if you want to be one of these people, or to get updated on events, please tell us if you are prepared to be one, or else state how often you want to go. This is an attempt to get FSSP, going in South Africa, in accordance with Benidict XVI's hopes for the church.Please write on our wall, or email us if you want to be one of the first, needed thirty, otherwise, please pray for our success.
Sincerely,Marc Aupiais, and fellows"
http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=27321623434
the telling of this is seen here:
"Ok, the second meeting about the Latin Mass has taken place. Unfortunatly, I couldn't attend the first one, but apparently it was not really important. I managed to attend the second meeting, which happened on Saturday the 6th of September. It was at St. John Fisher, which is in Lynwood, Pretoria.The Monsignor went through the order of the Latin Mass with us. He said he would be willing to allow the Latin Mass if we had a minimum of 30 people attending it a month.The second meeting is scheduled for the 27th of September at 9:00am, at St. John Fisher's. From there we will determine when the Mass will be implemented. But we need your support!"
Asley Ritchie attended the meeting previous to this one.
http://www.new.facebook.com/wall.php?id=27321623434
Please join us on the 27th and keep in contact.
God Bless, Marc Aupiais
sanlameer@gmail.com
http://groups.google.com/group/tridentine-South-Africa
http://nunescr.jimdo.com/contact_us.php
a justification of the mass is given here
Removed on temporary status for investigation for Orthodoxy issues
Email we sent out:
Dear {Friends and fellows},
I would firstly like to thank your admins for allowing us to send this message, which will be of interest to either many members or people they know of.
The Archdiocese of Johannesburg plans to redintroduce the Latin mass to those desiring it, with a specific mass, but need to know they will succeed if they do this, as it is requires at least 30 monthy attenders to be worthwhile.
There will be a meeting on the 27th of September, at 09:00am at the parish of St. John Fisher, which is in Lynwood, Pretoria.
If there are enough people willing to commit to this, the applicable persons, would be willing to allow the Latin Mass, in a single parish at first in the diocese- if we had a minimum of 30 people attending it a month.
Please inform your parishes about this, perhaps to be announced at the announcements in mass.
We have set up a facebook group, which will keep you in the loop, which we would appreciate our fellows joining:
listed here
http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=27321623434
God bless,Pax Christi et Catholici,
Marc Aupiais
To start, we have a meeting on the 27th September at 09:00 at St.John Fisher's church Lynwood, Pretoria, where the viablity of this will be judged, if we have 30 once a month attenders- it is viable-
The location will also be discussed i.e. JHB or Pretoria.
here is our facebook group
Tridentine South Africa
It, like this will have details!
here is an intorduction
"The ancient rite of the mass, the Tridentine mass, may be reintroduced to the Archdiocese of Johannesburg, if the diocese can get enough people in the Johannesburg/Pretoria area to want to attend it.The Archdiocese is trying to start up a Latin mass in Johannesburg or Pretoria, but we desperately are trying to get at least 30 people to go once a month, or ris no mass at all.Join this group if you want to be one of these people, or to get updated on events, please tell us if you are prepared to be one, or else state how often you want to go. This is an attempt to get FSSP, going in South Africa, in accordance with Benidict XVI's hopes for the church.Please write on our wall, or email us if you want to be one of the first, needed thirty, otherwise, please pray for our success.
Sincerely,Marc Aupiais, and fellows"
http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=27321623434
the telling of this is seen here:
"Ok, the second meeting about the Latin Mass has taken place. Unfortunatly, I couldn't attend the first one, but apparently it was not really important. I managed to attend the second meeting, which happened on Saturday the 6th of September. It was at St. John Fisher, which is in Lynwood, Pretoria.The Monsignor went through the order of the Latin Mass with us. He said he would be willing to allow the Latin Mass if we had a minimum of 30 people attending it a month.The second meeting is scheduled for the 27th of September at 9:00am, at St. John Fisher's. From there we will determine when the Mass will be implemented. But we need your support!"
Asley Ritchie attended the meeting previous to this one.
http://www.new.facebook.com/wall.php?id=27321623434
Please join us on the 27th and keep in contact.
God Bless, Marc Aupiais
sanlameer@gmail.com
http://groups.google.com/group/tridentine-South-Africa
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